I am excited to feature two accomplished Black women attorneys who have built impactful careers while also creating space for others to grow within the legal profession. Through their experiences, they offer valuable insight into what it means to navigate the legal field with resilience, purpose, and authenticity.

They share their personal journeys into law, the challenges they have encountered along the way, and the lessons that have shaped their careers. Their perspectives provide not only practical advice for aspiring attorneys but also encouragement for those working to find their place in the profession.

By highlighting their stories, this conversation sheds light on the diverse paths within the legal field and the importance of mentorship and community.

Tamya Cox-Touré obtained her Bachelor of Arts in Journalism from Oklahoma State University and her Juris Doctor from the Oklahoma City University School of Law. Tamya serves as the executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Oklahoma. She previously served as Regional Director of Public Policy and Organizing at Planned Parenthood Great Plains, overseeing the Public Affairs departments in Oklahoma and Arkansas. Tamya also served as the first Legislative Counsel for the ACLU of Oklahoma.

Tamya is committed to civil rights and civil liberties. She has traveled across the state and country speaking directly to communities on issues that impact their daily lives, as well as presenting on numerous panels covering a variety of topics, including race equity.

Quiana Harris attended Winston-Salem State University. She obtained a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science, with a concentration in Public Administration, and her Juris Doctor from Howard University School of Law (HUSL).

At HUSL, Quiana was a member of the Howard Law Journal, and clerked at several public interest agencies throughout D.C., including the Federal Public Defender's Office, United States District Court of Maryland, and the Washington Lawyers' Committee. Following HUSL, Quiana joined the faculty of Georgetown University Law Center as an E. Barret Prettyman Fellow where she represented children accused of crimes in the District and supervised third-year law students in Georgetown’s Juvenile Justice Clinic.

Currently, Quiana is a Supervising Trial Attorney in the serious felony division of the D.C. Public Defender Service, and a Professor of Legal Writing at the University of Baltimore Law School.

What area of law do you practice, and how long have you been practicing in this area?

Tamya: So, I always just want to be very upfront. I very much believe that I am practicing in civil rights and civil liberties, but I am, as I've mentioned before, you know, your attorney who's never in the courtroom. I've done policy my entire career. So, I feel like I am an expert in the policy world here in Oklahoma. But with that, it’s really been in the area of civil liberties and civil rights. For almost 20 years, or 20 years actually this year.

Quiana: I've been a practicing criminal defense since I graduated from law school in 2019. Specifically, when I first graduated, right out of law school, my practice was focused on representing children in D.C. that were accused of committing crimes through a fellowship at Georgetown University Law Center. And then I did that for two years. Right after the fellowship in Georgetown, I joined the D.C. Public Defender Service.

When did you know which practice area you wanted to pursue? Was it something you discovered in school, through work experience, or later on?

Tamya: So, I think a little bit of both. That was very fortunate that, I actually started interning for the ACLU of Oklahoma, my very first year in law school. And through that internship, it ended up becoming a full-time job after I graduated, and I stayed for several years. But it was really through the mix of that internship while I was in law school and really kind of learning about the different areas. I think that really opened up my eyes about the ability to do policy work. But more importantly, thinking about what individual rights are and what civil liberties are. So, I was able to, because of my work, because of where I was working at during law school, I was able to look at things through this civil rights lens that really helped, I think, shape what I wanted to do when I graduated.

Quiana: I would say in college, specifically, the summer between my junior and senior year, I did an internship at the Public Defender Service in D.C., where, for the first time, I was able to see black public defenders who were doing a really, really good job here in D.C., representing their clients. But prior to that, I had not really seen many attorneys that looked like me who were doing this work. So it wasn't really a field that I was, not that I wasn't interested in it, but I just didn't see myself doing it. Instead, prior to that internship in the summer, but between my junior and senior year of college, I was a political science major, and so I really was intending to pursue kind of local government, politics, and grassroots organizing. When I was in college, Trayvon Martin was killed. So that was kind of something that I thought I would pursue more, so, like activism. But after that fellowship, that's when I was more so introduced to the idea of pursuing public defense, specifically in D.C.

What advice would you give to pre-law and law students who are deciding which area of law they want to practice?

Tamya: I think the best advice that I can give is don't follow my path. I think I got so focused that I did not open myself up to all the amazing parts of the law, and so really just remaining and staying open about the different areas. I think some people really enjoy doing transactional law or really get really excited about family law that they didn't necessarily think they were going to do. So really being open and seeking out those opportunities to learn more about the different areas where they could practice. I think it's some of the best advice. Don't get just so tunnel vision because there's a whole world out there in the world of law that I think people can really enjoy if they just knew more about it.

Quiana: I would say definitely try your best to get as many real-life experiences as possible throughout law school. So that means internships doing this semester, and externships or clerkships during the summers. So I would always, always just advise if you're interested in the area of law, if you think it's something you might want to do, seeking out attorneys who do exactly what you're interested in doing so that you can pick their brain, ask them questions, maybe even get you an externship or clerkship so that you can actually see what it's like to work in that field of law. I don't advise any law student to just kind of focus and pursue maybe one area of law and leave all other avenues out. I think it's really important that, especially if you don't know what you want to do, to try a lot of different things so that you can kind of narrow your scope of what you want to pursue after law school. So, my advice would be getting real- world experience through externships, clerkships, and internships.

What does a typical day look like for you in your practice area?

Tamya: It changes every day. I am in this really great position to lead the ACLU of Oklahoma. And so with that, my focus has to change that some days are really exciting because, like right now, we're in the middle of a session, so I'm really reading bills and thinking about what does potential litigation look like for some of these bills that we believe are unconstitutional, but other days, specifically in the summer and fall really focused on areas around advocacy and ensuring that people know what their rights are. So, I'm really lucky in the sense that not every day is the same. And there's nothing really typical, I think about any of the work in the world that we live in right now.

Quiana: So, a typical day for me varies. Literally, like, for example, today, I spent most of the morning preparing for a hearing that I had in the afternoon. After I left court, I then went to the jail to visit one of my clients who was incarcerated, and he has a really important hearing tomorrow. So, we went over just his options for how he wants to resolve his case. We talked about whether he wants to take a plea (plead guilty) or whether he wants to go to trial. And so that required us looking over somebody on camera, talking about what our options look like if we go to trial, what is the likelihood that we would win, the likelihood that we could potentially lose, and the consequences of either one of those options. But often times, I am just in court quite a bit. If I'm not in trial, I'm preparing for trial, which means reviewing discovery, talking to witnesses, working with my investigator, to figure out what types of evidence do we want to collect to help my client have the best chances of winning a trial that might also look like on a typical day, meeting with my clients who are either incarcerated. Some of them are not. So many of my clients are at home, living their regular lives, going to work, taking care of their families, but they just happen to have a pending criminal case. So, meeting with them and their families, but also taking opportunities to research really novel legal issues, figuring out the best argument to make in court. So it really varies, but there's, I think, maybe three big buckets of what I do is working directly with clients, investigating and preparing for cases, and then, being in the actual courtroom.

What is one aspect of your day-to-day work that most students would be surprised to learn about?

Tamya: Well, for me, recognizing, how often I'm simply thanking people for being politically engaged, engaged in their communities, and donating to our office. I'm doing a lot of fundraising that I just never thought when I was in law school or even when I was kind of junior staff, that I would be taking a big role in. But it's become a significant part. And I definitely think my law skills and my career over the last 20 years has helped with that because a lot of the work that I'm doing is simply storytelling. And I think that is what a lot of lawyers are doing. They're simply telling their client’s story to someone who will listen and trying to advocate for them.

Quiana: I would say just the autonomy and flexibility of being a trial attorney, for example, you can pretty much choose your schedule. If I know that I, let's just say I don't have any hearings coming up this week or I don't have anything that's necessarily a pressing deadline, I can take this week to kind of relax, figure out, you know, what I want to eat for dinner. It's really flexible. But let's say, for example, I do have a trial that's coming up in about a month. I can really plan my weeks leading up to that trial to fill them with as much or as little as I want. So, I do think that it might be surprising to know just how flexible your everyday schedule can be when you are a trial attorney, because you pretty much dictate when you do and don't do certain things. And of course, you work with your client's schedule, you work with the Court’s calendar, their schedule as well, but it is really very flexible as far as the time that you put into what you need to do. Of course, you're working hard. Still, sometimes you might spend a lot of hours throughout the day working on something, but it's still very flexible. And I don't know if many law students know that it's not your typical 9 to 5, it could be 9 to 9. It could be 9 to 10:30 a.m., you know, so you really have a lot of control over your schedule as a trial attorney.

Were there any pivotal moments, mentors, or experiences that significantly shaped your career path?

Tamya: Oh, definitely. I would say the first is when I realized I really wanted to get into policy, I was interning here, and a bill, I wasn't really thinking about policy at all or what that meant. But a bill was going through that would significantly limit where people with sex offenders where they could be within our state and in a place like Tulsa, it essentially eliminated a person from just being in the whole city block or the whole the city perimeter, because the law was, or the bill was so broad, eventually became a law and we were unable to challenge it. But for me, it was really important and pivotal, and I tell this when I talk about myself is that in that moment when we were interviewing clients, clients with really, you know, they had done egregious acts and crimes. But really just talking to them and learning more about them, and them thanking us. One man called me the next day after and said, I just really want to thank you. You're the first person who knew what my crime was and looked me in the eye and still talk to me. And that will always be a pivotal moment for me, because it really kind of opened up this opportunity that if I really wanted to fight for civil rights and justice, I wanted to do it before it got to the courtroom and doing it under the dome and doing it at the Capitol and really fighting for civil rights there, was still fighting for civil rights and it was happening, hopefully before injuries occurred.

Quiana: Yes, so I would when I was a 1L in law school, I don’t have any attorneys in my family, so I was a first-generation law student. And when I went to law school, I heard a lot about doing courtships, judicial clerkship with judges. And so, in my mind, I kind of was convinced that you have to do a clerkship, or you should do a clerkship. And for me, I really kind of believed that that was true just because I was hearing it a lot. And I really didn't have attorneys in my family to either rebut or support that belief. But I was able to find two black women who were criminal defense attorneys in D.C. I found them on Google and LinkedIn, and I reached out to them and let them know that I was really interested in the work that they did, and if they would have time to meet with me, could we grab coffee or just have a conversation about how they ended up owning their own law firms in D.C. So, I met with those two women, and they essentially let me know that you don't have to follow the plight of everybody else in law school. You can figure out what you want to do, what you're interested in, and there's really no right or wrong way to go about figuring out what you want to do as a lawyer. It's what works best for you. And so when I heard that advice, I completely just started to ignore what all of my classmates were doing, because most of my classmates were interested in big law, corporate litigation, mergers and acquisitions. And those were just not things I was interested in. So, it really helped me to speak to those two Black women that gave me information, encouragement, and insight into what their career path looked like, because I wasn't really getting a diverse perspective at my law school about what I should be doing as a law student. So I think that was a pivotal moment for me as I was getting ready to figure out what I wanted to do with my career.

How did your identity as a minority woman influence your path into law school and the legal profession?

Tamya: I think it's probably no different than most marginalized communities that when you are in establishments that are predominantly white and predominantly male, you are othered a lot, I think your credibility, a lot of the times is in question, and that didn't change while I was in law school. And even to this day, as the executive director, it still hasn't changed in some spaces. So, it really is just ensuring that I'm, as I am mentoring others or talking to others, that I'm taking that advice about not shrinking myself and not making myself smaller in these big spaces, and really creating the confidence and recognition that we all belong, and all of our voices are extremely important in the work and they need to be heard. But yeah, I think those, I think, again, being part of a marginalist community in a couple ways, being black and being a woman, I definitely think they have shaped my ability to wanting to make sure that I'm extremely credible and that I seem credible, because that's really important because sometimes I walk in spaces and that credibility's lost simply because of people's bad behavior. And then, too, like, I want to, I'm always recognizing that I'm diplomatic in a lot of ways. I don't want to be seen as the angry black woman, that trope, I think, has hindered so many, amazing women, black women, and it's something like, I don't want to be seen as, but at the same time, it's an unfair trope, and I want to make sure that I'm dismantling those stereotypes as well.

Quiana: I think being a Black woman in this space a lot of judges and opposing counsel that I interact with every day are white or white men. It’s pretty obvious when I come into a room, a Black woman, so I know a lot of people say they don’t see color or it’s not about race. I don’t think that’s a realistic approach to take, like people see that you’re Black before they see anything else. I just make sure when I am in court, when I’m representing my clients and anything I do as a lawyer I do my best to be as authentically me as possible. I think it’s important for my clients to see that, I think it’s important for judges to see that, and I think it’s important for everybody in the legal profession to see that it doesn’t matter if you’re a Black woman, Black man, you don’t have to be White to be successful in this field. So, I definitively think I just keep that on my mind in everything that I do. It’s also really important to talk with, like you and I are doing now, to talk with Black law students and students of color who might not know what they want to do. Or maybe they’re interested in doing certain things, but they haven’t seen an attorney that looks like them doing those things. I really try to make time for mentorship and make time for conversations like this with students because I think that seeing someone that look like you can really help the next generation of lawyers be a little bit more confident in what they want to do. Versus if you go into court, or you meet partners, and nobody looks like you it might feel like ‘oh that’s not a possibility for me’. So, I just keep that on my mind when I’m doing anything in my career.

What challenges did you face when entering or navigating the legal profession?

Tamya: I think, you know, youth plays a big role in some of those spaces when as a lobbyist, that was having seeing young folks as lobbyists was when I first started off, was not a thing. So it was really just overcoming this idea that just because I was young, I wasn't capable of like understanding, some of the laws that are trying to be enacted or having a good knowledge of how they work. I think this is the other challenge of that, this was never, you know, a lot of the spaces that I'm in were never spaces built or meant for young black women. And so, entering into those spaces, was important for me to be in there, but sometimes filled with those obstacles that I think that many young black women face for sure.

Quiana: So I think some challenges definitely stem back to what we were just talking about as far as seeing attorneys who looked like me, like in this field, I don't see as many Black women in court every day or doing the things that I do. So, sometimes it can feel like a little isolating. And you know, like you want that sense of community, people who understand your identity, understand your experiences, and how that might be a lot different from people who don't look like you. I think that can be isolating. But what I found to have been helpful is kind of creating my own community outside of like my immediate coworkers. So that means staying in contact with my law school classmates, staying in contact with my mentors, and just really keeping up with my community outside of my everyday job, because when, you know, you're stressed out about something or you feel like something wasn't fair or somebody made, let's say, a very passive aggressive or racist comment that you can kind of vent and find people who you can trust to talk to about it. I think that helps, because without that, I think it could be very isolating and difficult to kind of go through this work by yourself, without people who understand what your experience is.

How do you measure success in your legal career?

Tamya: I measure it the same way that I ask my advocacy team to measure their success is that it's never going to be about how many cases we win or how many bills, unconstitutional bills that we kill in session, it's really about how the community sees us. Does the community and the communities that are important to me see me as a good resource? See me as someone that’s trustworthy, credible, someone that is honest, those are the things that I think lead to what success looks like in this work. And those are the things that I think, I hold great value to, and that is how when my times ending here and this area, that those are the things that will always be important of how I determine success.

Quiana: Often times people might think as a trial attorneys it’s about how many cases you beat, like how many wins you have at trial. For me, I think it's more about how satisfied my clients are with my representation. If I have a client who maybe didn't get the best outcome, let's say, for example, they lost their trial or they were sentenced to a crazy amount of time in prison. That might not feel like a win, but I think what makes it measurable, as far as success, is when you speak with clients and clients are completely satisfied with everything you did, they appreciated all the work you put into their case. They are thankful that somebody finally was fighting for them and speaking up for them, even if it wasn't the best outcome. And the end that they were satisfied with the representation. And so I think that I measure my own success by how satisfied my clients are with my representation. And if there's something that maybe a client feels like if I'm not doing, you know, up to par or what they would like, I really try to work with those clients to address those issues head on versus like ignoring it or, you know, acting as if what my client thinks is not right or they're not smart enough, to understand. I really take pride in having conversations with my clients and really making them feel a part of their representation because it's really their life that's on the line, and I'm just trying to advocate for what they want. So I just really keep in mind what it is that the client wants versus what do I think for me, what makes me look the best. That's not the way I think about it.

What aspects of your practice area bring you the most fulfillment?

Tamya: I think being a trusted individual to share another person's story, I think will always be something that I will be grateful for because I never want to be in a position where I'm telling someone's story that one didn't give me permission or, you know, didn't feel comfortable. But to be kind of that person that they felt comfortable enough to be like, hey, I'm unable to speak for myself for a lot of reasons, but I need you to tell those folks that are making decisions about me that will impact me, why they should or should not do that. I think that part of my work, I did not expect to be the fulfilling part, but it truly is, as being a trusted resource for others, to share their stories.

Quiana: Winning cases for sure, not guilty verdicts. And then a little bit of what I was just talking about when clients are able to tell me that they are, like, just completely satisfied and thankful that I was there to stand up and advocate for them. I think that that's fulfilling. And also too, when I'm able to speak with, you know, younger attorneys or law students and what I'm able to provide them about my experience helps them navigate what they want to do. I think that's really fulfilling when a younger attorney or law student's like, well, you know, after seeing you do this, I want to do it, or I know that I can do it too. Like I think that's fulfilling as well.

What advice would you give to pre-law and law students who are working to enter the legal profession?

Tamya: I think it's just trusting in yourself. I think it's essential. And, like, my generation and generation is above me have to do a better job, but I think it's essential that young voices are heard and respected and considered and part of the decision-making process. And they cannot be overlooked. So, I really would encourage students and young attorneys to really ensure that their voices are being heard and speaking up. But in that same vein, I think it's essential that those young voices also recognize that there's a wisdom in years and there's wisdom in people that have kind of done the work and been in the movements that we can learn from. And then I think lastly, the best advice that I can give is removing all ego from whatever. I think that gets in the way and we see that play out in so many different ways, I think in law school as well as in firms or well, in the practice itself. And I think when we can remove the ego, we don't care who gets credit for it. I think just better work is done and it gets created.

Quiana: So definitely working on your legal writing, working on your legal writing. There is not an area of law that you will go into where your writing will not be important. It is important for motions that you're filing, it is important for emails, it is important for research. The way you write is really, really important as a lawyer. And so, I would definitely say, legal research and writing or whatever your legal writing course is in law school, you want to really pay attention and try to become the best writer you possibly can, taking in feedback. And I know it's not a good feeling when you get all of those red lines over your paper, redo this, rewrite this. The point is not succinct enough. You're not using CRAC or IRAC or whatever the legal writing framework of maybe a professor once you use, it might be disheartening, but lawyers are their writing before they are anything else. And so, I would definitely say, focus on your legal writing and then second is to just try to find mentors that you actually can have realistic conversations with because those are going to be the people that are going to give you the raw and gritty truth about your professional development. You don't want to be surrounded by people that are like, oh, everything's great. You're doing a great job. There's nothing you can work on. You want to garner a community that's like, no, girl, you got to do better than that. Or that was not the best decision. That was not the best way to handle a certain situation. And I know it might be a difficult or uncomfortable conversation when you hear those things from mentors, but you definitely need a group of people that are not just like, yes men, people that are going to give you the truth about what you can be doing to kind of do better for yourself professionally.

What advice or words of wisdom would you give to your younger self—as a law student or early-career professional?

Tamya: I think it would simply be like you belong. You're exactly where you're supposed to be. It may not feel like it all the time. It may not look like it, but like each kind of phase of my life that took me to get to where I'm now, was really important, and I learned those lessons and it really helped shape, I think, the type of leader. Well, I hope it shaped the type of leader that I am to my younger staff now. And I think that's really encouraging them, as I would encourage my younger self is that you belong and you have so much importance and value to the work that you've got to really share your voice with others.

Quiana: Probably, like just to take more risks with my advocacy style and the way in which I, like, kind of prepare and get ready for cases. I think that initially, you know, you're new at something, you maybe want to take the safest route or you want to take the route or do things that other people have already done if you've seen that it works or you're like, you know, if it's not broke, don't fix it. Let me just do what I've seen other people do. But it's okay to step outside of the box. And even if other people are like, well, I haven't done that before, so I don't know how that will work out. You be the first one to do it, or you be the one that's kind of like, well, I'll be the one to try it out. I'll be the trailblazer. I think I maybe, in my in my earlier part of my career, I probably would have taken more opportunities to be a little bit more risk adverse, a little bit more adventurous in my practice. But it is scary when we first start because you're like, oh, I don't know how this will turn out. I want to just take the safest route, but the way you grow is to make yourself uncomfortable, especially in your practice as an attorney. So I would say to just be a little bit more adventurous and take more risks in the you way in practice.

Is there anything else you would like to add?

Quiana: I think maybe just something to add that is really important for law students, prelaw students, young lawyers, to really take seriously building that community we were just talking about. I think it's easy to maybe try to walk a straight and narrow and, you know, listen to what other people have told you work for them. But we all are different. We all practice differently. We all think differently. And the more insight you have from other people who have already done what you're trying to do. They've already had those difficult conversations and made mistakes. It's really important to have as many, if you can, as many perspectives as possible when you're trying to build, you know, who you're going to be as an attorney. And I don't think that maybe law students see how important it is to start building network as soon as possible, because you never know that one connection, that one conversation could really change the trajectory of your career, so you want to start having as many of those conversations as soon as you can, meeting as many of those people as soon as you can, because you never know how it will benefit you in the end. And the worst thing somebody can say is, no, I don't have time to talk to you. No, I'm too busy to talk to you. And like, that's not going to kill you. So I would just say, try to start building your own network and community as soon as you can. Like, don't wait until you graduate to say, oh, I want to start meeting other lawyers. I want to start talking to, you know, other black women who are doing what I want to do. You should start those conversations now.

This conversation offers a unique and honest insight into the paths and experiences of two Black accomplished legal attorneys. Tamya’s work in civil rights policy and Quiana’s career in criminal defense highlight that success in law is not confined to one setting or role—whether in the courtroom or shaping policy, both paths are equally impactful. Their journeys demonstrate that meaningful legal work can take many forms, all rooted in advocacy, service, and a commitment to justice.

Throughout the discussion, several key themes emerged. Both attorneys emphasized the importance of remaining open to different areas of law, seeking real-world experience, and building strong networks and mentorship relationships early on. They also highlighted that success is not solely defined by outcomes like winning cases or legislation, but by the trust they build within their communities and the quality of representation they provide to those they serve. Their reflections on identity further underscored the realities of navigating spaces where they are often underrepresented, while also reinforcing the importance of authenticity, confidence, and refusing to shrink in those environments.

Overall, this conversation serves as a meaningful reminder that there is no single blueprint for success in law. Instead, success is shaped by purpose, persistence, and the willingness to advocate not only for others, but for yourself. Their experiences encourage aspiring attorneys to remain curious, build connections, and confidently take up space in the profession while paving the way for those who will follow.